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The National for Thursday, Oct. 10, 2019 — Final Debate, Syria, Rooming Houses


>>Adrienne: TONIGHT THE FINAL DEBATE BEFORE YOU VOTE. WE’RE CHECKING THE FACTS AND THE PROMISES AND THE SPIN.>>[Speaking French]>>Adrienne: AS THE SIX LEADERS TAKE TO THE STAGE, ROSIE AND “AT ISSUE” BREAK IT DOWN.>>>TURKEY POUNDS NORTHERN SYRIA. WHAT IT COULD MEAN FOR ISIS.>>IT’S WET SNOW AND IT DOESN’T HELP ANYTHING.>>Adrienne: A DAMP AND DAMAGED HARVEST. AN ANXIOUS TIME FOR PRAIRIE FARMERS.>>>AND CBC NEWS INVESTIGATES HOW RELIABLE IS YOUR CREDIT SCORE? WE PUT COMPANIES TO THE TEST AND THE NUMBERS JUST DO NOT ADD UP.>>>THIS IS “THE NATIONAL.” (*) WHAT A BEAUTIFUL SHOT THERE AT THE CANADIAN MUSEUM OF HISTORY IN GATINEAU, QUÉBEC. DAYS AFTER AN ENGLISH DEBATE SHOOK UP THE FEDERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN, SIX LEADERS ARE CLASHING AGAIN ONE FINAL TIME. IT IS 11 DAYS UNTIL DECISION TIME FOR CANADIANS. TONIGHT’S DEBATE WAS IN FRENCH, A FINAL SHOWCASE FOR VOTERS BEFORE ADVANCED POLLS OPEN TOMORROW. ROSIE, YOU’RE IN GATINEAU RIGHT NOW RIGHT OUTSIDE OF THE DEBATE VENUE.>>Rosemary: THAT’S RIGHT. SIX LEADERS AND A NATIONAL PLATFORM AND THE STAKES WERE PRETTY CLEAR HERE AGAIN TONIGHT. TONIGHT WAS A BIG OPPORTUNITY OR A BIG RISK, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU LOOK AT THINGS. THEY WALKED IN KNOWING THAT THERE’S CERTAINLY SOME MOMENTUM UP FOR GRABS. MONDAY’S DEBATE SEEMED TO GIVE THE N.D.P.’S JAGMEET SINGH A LITTLE BOUNCE. AND THEN IN LAST WEEK’S FRENCH-LANGUAGE DEBATE THE CONSENSUS SEEMED TO BE THAT THE BLOC LEADER YVES-FRANCOIS BLANCHET FARED WELL, WHILE CONSERVATIVE LEADER ANDREW SCHEER DID NOT. THAT HAS BEEN REFLECTED IN QUÉBEC PUBLIC OPINION POLLS SINCE THEN. SO TONIGHT LIKE MANY OF THESE NIGHTS MATTERED. KATIE SIMPSON IS COVERING THE CAMPAIGN FROM THE BEGINNING AND SHE HAS THE HIGHLIGHTS OF TONIGHT’S DEBATE.>>Reporter: THE POLITE SMILES FADED QUICKLY AS CANDIDATES WASTED LITTLE TIME JUMPING INTO ATTACK MODE, TAKING AIM AT THE MAN WHO NO ONE HAD TAKEN SERIOUSLY UNTIL NOW.>>(Voice of Translator): NOW THAT THE BLOC QUÉBEC WANTS TO COME BACK INTO THE SCENE AND BRING THE QUÉBECERS BACK INTO OPPOSITION, QUÉBECERS NEED TO THINK ABOUT THIS.>>Reporter: IT HAD EVERYONE ELSE ON STAGE WORRIED. IF YVES-FRANCOIS BLANCHET CAN KEEP THAT MOMENTUM GOING, THERE’S LITTLE TO NO CHANCE THAT ANY OTHER PARTY COULD FORM A MAJORITY GOVERNMENT. AND THE CONSERVATIVE LEADER DIDN’T WANT TO WASTE HIS SECOND CHANCE IN HIS SECOND LANGUAGE.>>Andrew Scheer: (Voice of Translator): MR. BLANCHETTE’S PRIORITY IS TO TRY TO STIR UP SOVEREIGNISM ONCE AGAIN. HE WILL WORK WITH THE PARTI QUEBECOIS THE SECOND THAT THE ELECTIONS ARE OVER.>>Reporter: BLANCHET FENDED OFF THE ATTACKS AND DISMISSING CLAIMS OF THE VOTES OF THE BROK AS A STRATEGIC NIGHTMARE.>>(Voice of Translator): VOTING FOR THE BLOC IS A VOTE FOR QUÉBEC. IT’S A DEMOCRACY.>>Reporter:.>>Reporter: THE TWO FRONT-RUNNERS BY NO MEANS HAD KIND WORDS FOR ONE ANOTHER. LIBERAL LEADER JUSTIN TRUDEAU AND SCHEER SPARRED OVER THE ECONOMY, ENERGY AND THE ENVIRONMENT.>>Rt. Hon. Justin Trudeau: (Voice of Translator): WE NEED TO STAND UP TO CONSERVATIVES LIKE JASON KENNEY AND DOUG FORD AND THE OIL BARRONS WHO ARE SUPPORTING THEM TO CONTINUE TO FIGHT AGAINST CLIMATE CHANGE.>>Andrew Scheer: (Voice of Translator): CONTRARY TO MR. TRUDEAU’S CLAIMS ON THIS FILE, HIS PLAN SAY FAILURE.>>Reporter: AND THE N.D.P. LEADER TRIED TO BE THE VOICE OF REASON.>>Jagmeet Singh: (Voice of Translator): THIS IS MR. PIPELINE AND THIS IS MR. PIPELINE 2, AND MR. TRUDEAU, NOT SO SURE. BUT I’M JAGMEET SINGH AND I WILL NEVER FORCE A PIPELINE ON QUÉBEC, THAT IS CLEAR.>>Reporter: THEY WILL HAVE AN ALL-OUT SPRINT TO THE FINISH. KATIE SIMPSON, CBC NEWS, OTTAWA.>>Rosemary: NOW EVAN DYER WAS WATCHING THE DEBATE FOR THOSE MOMENTS WHEN THE TRUTH MIGHT HAVE BEEN STRETCHED A LITTLE BIT TO TRY TO FIT THE MESSAGE AND HE WAS READY WITH THE FACT-CHECK.>>(Voice of Translator): AS YOU KNOW THE CARBON EMISSIONS ONLY AMOUNT TO 2%.>>(Voice of Translator): BUT WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT CANADA EMITS ONLY 1.6% OF THE GLOBAL EMISSIONS.>>Reporter: IT’S SCHEER’S NUMBER THAT IS CLOSER TO THE TRUTH BUT BOTH NUMBERS SUGGEST THAT THERE’S LITTLE POINT IN CANADA TACKLING CLIMATE CHANGE SERIOUSLY UNTIL OTHER NATIONS WHO ARE WORSE GLOBAL CITIZEN DOES THEIR PART. ANDREW SCHEER HAS OFTEN MENTIONED CHINA AND INDIA. WHAT IS LEFT OUT IS THAT CANADIANS ARE ONLY .05% OF THE POPULATION. PER CAPITA WE’RE AMONG THE HEAVIEST EMITTERS ON THE PLANET. CANADIANS EMIT TWICE THE AMOUNT OF GREENHOUSE GASES AS THOSE IN CHINA AND NINE TIMES AS MUCH AS INDIANS. AND CANADA AS A WHOLE EMITS MORE THAN THE RICHEST NATIONS, MEASURE BRITAIN, FRANCE AND ITALY, ALL WHICH HAVE MUCH LARGER POPULATIONS.>>WE’RE GOING TO PUT ATTACKS ON THE ULTRA-WEALTHY. THIS WILL GIVE US ACCESS TO $ $70 BILLION.>>Reporter: JAGMEET SINGH SAYS THAT THERE’S REVENUE THAT THE GOVERNMENT COULD GO AFTER BY IMPOSING A 1% WEALTH TAX FOR THOSE WITH OVER $20 MILLION. AND AFTER ADMINISTRATION COSTS, THE P.B.O. SAYS THAT THE TAX COULD COLLECT $68 BILLION. BUT THE ESTIMATE COMES WITH HIGH UNCERTAINTY. EVAN DYER, CBC NEWS, OTTAWA.>>Rosemary: SALIMAH SHIVJI IS WATCHING THE DEBATE HERE AT THE MUSEUM WITH ME IN GATINEAU. SALIMAH, WE SAW THE FORMAT CHANGE A LITTLE BIT AND THAT MAY HAVE HAD AN ADVANTAGE FOR SOME PEOPLE. DO YOU THINK THAT IT CHANGED ANYTHING FOR THIS ELECTION?>>Reporter: YEAH, I THINK THAT IS INTERESTING. WE DON’T LIKE TO TALK ABOUT WINNERS OR LOSERS WHEN THERE’S A DEBATE. BUT IN THIS CASE THE VOTERS HAVE TO BE THE WINNERS HERE BECAUSE OF THAT FORMAT CHANGE. THE DEBATE WAS MUCH MORE CLEAR AND FOCUSED ON POLICY AND A LOT MORE SUBSTANCE AND TIME FOR THE LEADERS TO TALK ABOUT THEIR POLICIES AND FEWER ATTACKS. BUT I HAVE TO SAY THAT THERE WERE FEWER ATTACKS BUT THE ONE NOTABLE MOMENT OF CACOFFEE AND CHAOS IS WHEN ANDREW SCHEER WENT AFTER YVES-FRANCOIS BLANCHET AND THAT SHOWED THAT THE FOCUS WAS ON THE BLOC QUÉBECOIS BECAUSE OF THAT MOMENTUM IN QUÉBEC AND THE SHIFTING GROUND WITH THE VOTER THERE IS. SO THAT WAS IMPORTANT. AND JUSTIN TRUDEAU I HAVE TO SAY ALSO TRIED TO MOVE THINGS TOWARDS THE BLOC AND THE LIBERAL LEADER I DO SAY FELT MORE FIERY IN HIS ATTACKS, I DON’T KNOW IF YOU AGREE, BUT HE FELT THAT HE WAS MORE READY WITH THIS DEBATE AND PORE COMFORTABLE, OBVIOUSLY, WITH THE LANGUAGE AND HE WAS ABLE TO ATTACK THE BLOC A COUPLE TIMES BOTH ON CLIMATE CHANGE AS WELL AS ON SAYING, YOU KNOW, BLOC QUÉBECOIS IS TRYING TO TAKE THAT PLACE AND TRY TO HOLD THE BALANCE OF POWER. AND TRY TO MAKE THE CASE THAT QUÉBECERS AND ESPECIALLY FRANCOPHONE VOTERS SHOULD VOTE FOR THE LIBERAL PARTY. ANDREW SCHEER ALSO FOCUSED TIME ON THE BLOC QUÉBECOIS BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE DIVERGENT FOCUSES AND JUSTIN TRUDEAU SPENT TIME TALKING AGAIN ABOUT DOUG FORD AND JASON KENNEY AND HIS POSITION THAT THIS IS A CHOICE BETWEEN HIMSELF AND THE CONSERVATIVES.>>Rosemary: OKAY, SO THAT’S — THAT’S SOME OF THE MAIN PLAYERS, IF YOU WILL AND HOW DID THE OTHER PEOPLE FACTOR INTO THE DEBATE TONIGHT, QUICKLY.>>Reporter: JAGMEET SINGH WAS ABLE TO LAND A FEW ZINGERS AND HE FELT NATURAL AS HE DID IN THE ENGLISH DEBATE. BUT THE FRENCH LANGUAGE DOES HAMPER HIM A BIT AS WELL. AS WELL AS ELIZABETH MAY. I HAVE TO SAY THAT A LOT OF TIMES SHE WAS NOT VERY INCOMPREHENSIBLE IN HER SECOND LANGUAGE. SHE DID TRY TO RISE ABOVE IT AND SAY, YOU KNOW, STOP BICKERING, BUT IT’S DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT. AND MAXIME BERNIER SURPRISINGLY DID NOT CAPITALIZE ON HIS FRENCH. HE DIDN’T TAKE AS MUCH SPACE IN THE DEBATE AS PERHAPS THE OTHER FRONT-RUNNERS.>>Rosemary: WE’LL SEE IF IT CHANGES ANYTHING INDEED. THANK YOU, SALIMAH SHIVJI IS HERE WITH ME AT THE MUSEUM. AND YOU WILL HEAR “AT ISSUE’S” TAKE ON THE DEBATE IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES’ TIME. FOR NOW BACK TO YOU IN TORONTO, ADRIENNE, WITH THE REST OF THE DAY’S NEWS.>>Adrienne: A WAVE OF CHAOS IS GOING THROUGH AS TURKISH FORCES ARE PUSHING INTO THE COUNTRY AND IT’S DAYS AFTER DONALD TRUMP MOVED THE U.S. TROOPS ABANDONING THE KURDISH FIGHTERS WHO HELPED TO DEFEAT ISIS. MARGARET EVANS IS IN NORTHERN IRAQ TONIGHT.>>Reporter: THE SHAKES AND CONFLICT CRACKING OPEN YET AGAIN. TURKEY’S OFFENSIVE ON THE TOWNS HUGGING SYRIA’S NORTHERN BORDER IS NOW IN ITS SECOND DAY AND SETTING IN MOTION A WAVE OF HUMAN FLIGHT. AID AGENCIES WARN THAT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO KEEP AHEAD OF THE FIGHTING AND ON THE MOVE. SOME NOT FAST ENOUGH. THIS WAS THE SCENE AT A HOSPITAL IN QAMISHLI. AN 11-YEAR-OLD BOY, ONE OF THOSE KILLED IN THE OFFENSIVE. ALARM BELLS ARE SOUNDING IN THE DIPLOMATIC CORRIDORS.>>I DON’T BELIEVE IN MILITARY SOLUTIONS. I ALWAYS STRONGLY BELIEVE IN POLITICAL SOLUTIONS.>>Reporter: THE POLITICAL SOLUTIONS HAVE BEEN SADLY LACKING DURING EIGHT YEARS OF WAR IN SYRIA AND TODAY WAS NO EXCEPTION. THE U.N. SECURITY COUNCIL FAILED TO AGREE ON A MOTION AT AN EMERGENCY MEETING CALLED BY THE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, INCLUDING GERMANY.>>WE CALL ON TURKEY TO SEIZE THE UNILATERAL MILITARY ACTION AS WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT IT WILL ADDRESS TURKEY’S UNDERLYING SECURITY CONCERNS.>>Reporter: THE TURKISH PRESIDENT RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN ANSWERED THAT WITH A DEFIANT THREAT.>>[speaking foreign language]>>Reporter: HEY, EUROPEAN UNION, HE’S SAYING, PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER. IF YOU TRY TO LABEL THIS OPERATION AS AN INVASION IT’S VERY SIMPLE — WE WILL OPEN THE GATE AND SEND 3.6 MILLION REFUGEES YOUR WAY. TURKEY IS CALLING ITS OFFENSIVE “OPERATION PEACE SPRING.” SAYING THAT IT WANTS TO SET UP A SAFE ZONE FOR SYRIAN REFUGEES TO RETURN TO. BUT ANKARA FEARS ITS SOUTHERN FLANK RUN BY THE KURDISH MILITIAS THAT IT LINKS TO KURDISH SEPARATISTS INSIDE OF TURKEY. THE SAME KURDISH MILITIAS WHO HELPED TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC STATE THESE PAST YEARS AND NOW LEFT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES, BY THEMSELVES. MARGARET EVAN, CBC NEWS, IRBIL, NORTHERN IRAQ.>>Adrienne: YOU HEARD MARGARET TALK ABOUT ISIS, THE FEAR THAT THOSE FIGHTERS WILL NOW REGROUP IS VERY REAL, IN PART BECAUSE OF HOW MANY THERE ARE AND WHERE THEY ARE. UNDER THE GUARD OF THE KURDISH FORCES WHO MAY ABANDON THEIR POSTS TO GO FIGHT AGAINST THE TURKISH OFFENSIVE. THE STRETCH THAT TURKEY IS TARGETING LOOKS LIKE THIS. THE 100-KILOMETRE SWATH OF NORTHEASTERN SYRIA, SOME 30 KILOMETRES DEEP. THE KURDISH FORCES ESTIMATE THAT THEY HOLD 12,000 ISIS FIGHTERS IN FACILITIES IN NORTHEASTERN SYRIA. TWO OF THOSE ARE WITHIN TURKEY’S TARGET AREA. OTHER CAMPS AREN’T FAR AWAY AND ALSO HOUSE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF FAMILY MEMBERS OF ISIS FIGHTERS. AND THERE ARE CANADIANS AMONGST THOSE ISIS RANKS. EIGHT MEN, 10 WOMEN, 22 CHILDREN, OF ISIS FIGHTERS, AND DOZENS MORE ARE STILL UNACCOUNTED FOR. CANADA HAS BEEN URGED TO TAKE ITS CITIZENS BACK AND HASN’T. THEIR FATE NOW IS REALLY UNCLEAR.>>>NOW TO ANOTHER INTERNATIONAL CONFLICT, ONE THAT SPEAKS TO CHINA’S CLOUT IN GLOBAL COMMERCE. WHEN IT COMES TO POLITICS, COMPANIES SEEM TO BE BUCKLING UNDER PRESSURE FROM BEIJING TO TOE A CERTAIN LINE OR JUST STAY SILENT. THOMAS DAIGLE HAS THE LATEST EXAMPLE. [Cheers and Applause]>>Reporter: FOR APPLE, CHINA ISN’T JUST A BIG BUYER, WHERE THE TECH GIANT SELLS BILLIONS WORTH OF iPHONES AND LAPTOPS AND GADGETS, IT’S ALSO WHERE MANY OF APPLE’S PRODUCTS ARE MADE WITH CHINESE LABOUR CENTRAL TO ITS SUPPLY CHAIN. SO WHEN APPLE GETS ON BEIJING’S BAD SIDE, THINGS GET AWKWARD FAST. CONSIDER THOSE MONTHS LONG DEMONSTRATIONS. WITH ACTIVISTS IN HONG KONG DEMANDING GREATER FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY. FACED WITH AGGRESSIVE TACTICS FROM POLICE, THE DEMONSTRATORS HAVE TAKEN TO USING AN iPHONE APP WITH CROWDSOURCED DATA SHOWING WHERE THE OFFICERS ARE STATIONED.>>THEY WOULD TRY TO AVOID THAT ROUTE. SO IT’S MORE TO SECURE THEMSELVES FROM POLICE BRUTALITY.>>Reporter: EXCEPT THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT SEES THE MAPPING APP MUCH DIFFERENTLY — WITH THE FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESMAN SAYING THAT IT’S REASONABLE TO OPPOSE WHAT HE CALLS “VIOLENT CRIMINAL ACTS,” RATHER THAN TO SUPPORT THEM. SO APPLE BANNED THE SOFTWARE, CLAIMING IN A STATEMENT, “THE APP HAS BEEN USED TO TARGET AND AMBUSH POLICE, THREATEN PUBLIC SAFETY, AND CRIMINALS HAVE USED IT TO VICTIMIZE RESIDENTS.” JUST THE LATEST U.S. COMPANY TO BACKTRACK AND TO AVOID CRITICISM OF CHINA. THE NBAS AND THE LAKERS AND NETS STILL PLAYED AMONG CONTROVERSY BUT THE LEAGUES’ PLAYERS WOULDN’T TALK ABOUT THE CONFLICT WITH BEIJING.>>THIS IS AN EVENT THAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK DURING THE NBA.>>Reporter: CRITICS SEE IT AS MORE EXAMPLES OF BENDING TO CHINA’S DEMAND. AWKWARD INDEED. THOMAS DAIGLE, CBC NEWS, TORONTO.>>Adrienne: IN THIS COUNTRY CHINA’S BAN OF CANADIAN PORK AND CANOLA HAD ALREADY MADE IT A CHALLENGING YEAR FOR SOME FARMERS, BUT NOW THERE IS ADDED PRESSURE FROM AN UNUSUALLY COLD AND SOGGY FALL. AND AS BONNIE ALLEN TELLS US, IT’S HAVING AN IMPACT BEYOND THE BOTTOM LINE.>>HALF OF THIS IS PUSHED DOWN ON THE GROUND.>>Reporter: STAN JEEVES’ WHEAT CROP IS BURIED UNDER SNOW.>>LOOK AT THE ONES IN THE SNOW HOW BLACK THEY ARE.>>Reporter: IT’S ABSORBED SO MUCH MOISTURE FROM THE RAIN AND THE SNOW THAT IT’S DEVELOPED MILDEW. THIS WHEAT IS NO LONGER ANY GOOD FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. JEEVES WILL BE LUCKY IF HE CAN EVEN SELL IT AS FEED FOR CATTLE OR PIGS.>>YOU’RE STANDING AROUND AND WHAT DO YOU DO, YOU WALK AROUND YOUR WEAR AND YOU SWEAR AT THE SNOW BUT IT DOESN’T HELP ANYTHING.>>Reporter: THE GROUND IS SO SATURATED THAT HE STILL HAS TO HARVEST THREE-QUARTERS OF HIS CROP.>>THIS IS THE SECOND SNOW THAT WE’VE ENDURED. AS WELL AS PROBABLY EIGHT INCHES OF RAIN SINCE THE FIRST OF AUGUST. SO WE’VE GOT ONLY 25% OF OUR CROP OFF AND ALL OF IT IS DAMP.>>Reporter: ACROSS SASKATCHEWAN, HARVEST IS JUST OFF HALFWAY DONE AND NORMALLY IT WOULD BE 82% FINISHED AT THIS POINT. GETTING THE CROP OFF IS ONE CHALLENGE — SELLING IT IS ANOTHER.>>THE QUALITY HAS JUST KEPT GOING DOWN AND DOWN AND DOWN, IT WILL DEFINITELY IMPACT THE BOTTOM LINE SIGNIFICANTLY THIS YEAR.>>Reporter: THAT’S JUST ONE STRAIN. THE FARMERS CALL THE 24-HOUR STRESS LINE MORE FREQUENTLY THIS YEAR TO GET CRISIS COUNSELLING. IT STARTED IN THE SPRING WHEN DROUGHT-LIKE CONDITIONS DELAYED SEEDING AND MARKET UNCERTAINTY FROM TRADE DISPUTES, SUCH AS THE ONE WITH CHINA, DROVE DOWN PRICES. AND NOW THIS. IT’S ALL BEEN TAKING A TOLL ON SOME FARMERS. MENTAL HEALTH GROUPS ARE URGING THEM TO SEEK HELP.>>THEY’RE NOT EATING PROPERLY, THEY’RE OUT OF THEIR NORMAL ROUTINE. AND THEY’RE HAVING DIFFICULTY SLEEPING. THEY’RE MORE SHORT TEMPERED.>>I REALLY FEEL FOR MAYBE THE YOUNGER FARMERS THAT HAVEN’T HAD AS MANY YEARS. SO HAVEN’T HAD A CHANCE TO BUILD EQUITY.>>Reporter: STAN JEEVES HAS BEEN FARMING FOR 46 YEARS AND HE’S HAD TOUGH ONES BEFORE BUT HE’S NEVER SEEN A HARVEST QUITE LIKE THIS. BONNIE ALLEN, CBC NEWS, NEAR WOLSELEY, SASKATCHEWAN.>>Adrienne: MORE NEWS STILL AHEAD ON “THE NATIONAL.” INVESTIGATING ILLEGAL AND DANGEROUS ROOMING HOUSES. ONE WINNIPEG COUNCILLOR’S MISSION IS TO SHUT THEM DOWN.>>>PLUS, A THIRD STRAIGHT DAY OF COMMUTER CHAOS ON OTTAWA’S BRAND-NEW L.R.T. SYSTEM. WE’LL TAKE YOU TRACK SIDE.>>Ian: AND THEY SAID THAT DEATH THREATS FORCED THEM TO CLOSE BUT THE OWNERS OF A SYRIAN RESTAURANT IN TORONTO SAY THEY HAVE FOUND A WAY TO REOPEN. WE’VE GOT THE UPDATE AND WE’RE BACK IN TWO MINUTES. (*)>>Adrienne: THIS WEEK THE “THE NATIONAL” IS LOOKING AT ILLEGAL RENTAL UNITS, ROOMING HOUSES THAT FLY UNDER THE REGULATORY RADAR, OFTEN IN SERIOUS VIOLATION OF SAFETY CODES. OVER THE PAST SIX YEARS ACROSS THE COUNTRY HUNDREDS OF FIRES HAVE CLAIMED DOZENS OF LIVES. KATIE NICHOLSON LOOKS AT ONE WINNIPEG COUNCILLOR ON A CRUSADE TO PREVENT TRAGEDY FROM STRIKING HER CITY AGAIN.>>EDUCATE THE RESIDENTS AND EDUCATE THE STUDENTS, EDUCATE THE LANDLORDS.>>Reporter: JANICE LUKES IS ON A MISSION AND IT’S A JOB TO KEEP UP WITH HER.>>I’M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE STUDENT SAFETY, I DON’T WANT ANYONE DYING WHEN I’M THE COUNCILLOR.>>Reporter: LUKES’ SOUTH WINNIPEG WARD HAS A BIG PROBLEM WITH ILLEGAL ROOMING HOUSES, SOMETHING THAT SHE’S DETERMINED TO CHANGE. PART OF THE PROBLEM THE UNIVERSITY OF MANITOBA SITS SQUARELY IN HER COMMUNITY AND ITS BURGEONING INTERNATIONAL STUDENT POPULATION IS DESPERATE FOR HOUSING. LAST TIME SHE KNOCKED ON THIS DOOR LUKES SAYS THAT SEVEN STUDENTS WERE JAMMED INTO THIS SMALL BUNGALOW.>>THAT WAS THE BATHROOM DOWN THERE. THE WINDOW. THERE WAS ONE BATHROOM UPSTAIRS BUT THERE WERE TWO SUITES DOWNSTAIRS.>>Reporter: SINCE TAKING OFFICE, LUKES FORCED THE CITY DEPARTMENTS TO SHARE FIRE AND COMPLAINT DATA AND FORMED A RESIDENTS GROUP TO KEEP A WATCHFUL EYE.>>DO YOU THINK THAT THIS ONE HERE, DO YOU THINK THAT THOSE TWO ARE STILL ROOMING HOUSING?>>THE ONE ON THE CORNER?>>YEAH.>>WELL, THERE’S SOMEBODY WHO LIVES IN THE — WELL, YES.>>THIS ONE HERE IS A ROOMING HOUSE. IT’S LIKE WHACK-A-MOLE AND YOU SHUT IT DOWN AND IT GOES SOMEWHERE ELSE AND ANOTHER ONE POPS UP. I WANT TO TAKE A PEEK HERE.>>Reporter: AND WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, LUKES IS READY TO RAT OUT LANDLORDS WHO OFTEN WANT RENT IN CASH.>>WE HAVE BEEN ENCOURAGING PEOPLE IF THEY SEE A LOT OF RENTAL ACTIVITY GOING ON AND MAYBE JUST CALL THE CANADIAN REVENUE AGENCY. LET THEM DEAL WITH IT.>>HI, HOW ARE YOU? ARE YOU A STUDENT?>>YEAH.>>RIGHT ON.>>Reporter: AND SHE HAS BEEN SHUTTING DOWN UNSAFE HOMES LUKES IS APPROVING NEW ONES. A THOUSAND UNITS IN FOUR YEARS, LIKE THIS BUILDING, AFFORDABLE AND ESPECIALLY DESIGNED FOR STUDENTS.>>DOES HE LIKE CASH OR CHEQUES?>>ONLINE PAYMENT.>>THAT’S GOOD.>>Reporter: DESPITE EVERYTHING THAT SHE’S DONE TO PUT AN END TO UNSAFE HOUSING THAT GAME OF WHACK-A-MOLE NEVER SEEMS TO END. JUST MONTHS AGO THE CITY SHUT THIS ROOMING HOUSE DOWN.>>YEAH, DERELICT. SEVEN ROOMS.>>SEVEN. A BY-LAW INSPECTOR CAME OUT AND COULDN’T GET IN AND THEN THE FIRE INSPECTOR CAME OUT AND GOT IN AND COUNTED 15 MATTRESSES. HERE WE ARE TODAY, TALKING TO A STUDENT, THERE’S SEVEN STUDENTS LIVING IN THERE. SO IT’S A GAME OF WHACK-A-MOLE.>>Reporter: AND WITH THE STAKES SO HIGH THIS ISN’T A GAME SHE’S GOING TO WALK AWAY FROM UNTIL EVERYONE IS SAFE. KATIE NICHOLSON, CBC NEWS, WINNIPEG.>>Adrienne: ALL RIGHT, LET’S GET TO IAN IN OUR VANCOUVER “THE NATIONAL” NEWSROOM AND HE’S WATCHING DEVELOPING STORIES FOR US NOW.>>Ian: ADRIENNE, WE’RE GOING TO BEGIN IN HAMILTON WHERE OFFICIALS HAVE APPROVED THE INDEPENDENT REVIEW OF THE POLICE RESPONSE TO VIOLENCE AT A PRIDE CELEBRATION. THE REVIEW IS AFTER SEVERAL PEOPLE WERE INJURED IN JUNE. A GROUP OF PROTESTERS BEARING LARGE ANTI-LGBTQ SIGNS, CLASHED WITH PRIDE SUPPORTERS. SOME SAY THAT THE OFFICERS TOOK TOO LONG TO RESPOND. HAMILTON’S POLICE SERVICES BOARD VOTED TO APPROVE AS MUCH AS HALF A MILLION DOLLARS TO HIRE THE LAWYERS TO INVESTIGATE.>>>THE TORONTO RESTAURANT WHICH WAS THE TARGET OF DEATH THREATS AND HATE MESSAGES SAYS THAT IT WILL REOPEN ITS DOORS AFTER SHUTTING DOWN.>>PUBLIC REACTION TO OUR DECISION WAS BEYOND WHAT WE IMAGINED.>>Ian: THE THREAT STEMMED FROM THE OWNER’S SON PARTICIPATING IN A PROTEST AT A MAXIME BERNIER RALLY. THE FAMILY SAYS THAT THEY’VE RECEIVED THOUSANDS OF MESSAGES OF SUPPORT OVER THE PAST FEW DAYS. AND ANOTHER RESTAURANT OWNER HAS STEPPED UP TO HELP WITH RUNNING THINGS.>>>NEW BRUNSWICK’S ONLY PRIVATE — THE PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE SPOKE TODAY WHETHER HE FELT BLACKMAIL BY THE U.S. THAT’S AN INTERNATIONAL STORY THAT WE’LL HAVE IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES.>>Adrienne: NEXT ON “THE NATIONAL,” BACK TO THE NATION’S CAPITAL AND NEIGHBOURING GATINEAU WHERE THE PARTY LEADERS ONCE AGAIN SQUARED OFF TONIGHT AND PERFECT TIMING, IT IS THURSDAY SO ROSIE AND “AT ISSUE” ARE HERE TO BREAK IT ALL DOWN. (*) (*) (*)>>Rosemary: WELCOME BACK HERE TO THE MUSEUM OF HISTORY IN GATINEAU ACROSS THE RIVER FROM PARLIAMENT HILL. ALL SIX LEADERS FACED OFF HERE TONIGHT FOR THE FINAL DEBATE. A CHANCE FOR THEM TO MAKE THEIR IMPRESSIONS TO CANADIANS, TO QUÉBECERS, TO FRENCH-SPEAKING CANADIANS, AS THE CAMPAIGN HEADS INTO ITS FINAL DAYS. SO A GOOD TIME FOR “AT ISSUE.” CHANTAL HEBERT IS IN MONTRÉAL AND ANDREW COYNE IS IN TORONTO. AND ALTHIA RAJ IS HERE IN GATINEAU WITH ME. OKAY, I WANT TO START JUST BY PLAYING A LITTLE CLIP PACK THAT WE PUT TOGETHER OF SOME MOMENTS THAT I THOUGHT SPOKE TO A LOT OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE DEBATE IN CASE PEOPLE MISSED IT AND SO LET’S TAKE A LISTEN.>>(Voice of Translator): VOTING FOR THE BLOC IS VOTING FOR THE LIBERALS AND VOTING FOR THE BLOC IS VOTING FOR THE CONSERVATIVES AND VOTING FOR THE BLOC IS VOTING FOR QUÉBEC. WE WILL SIT IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. IT’S A DEMOCRACY.>>(Voice of Translator): MR. BLANCHET SAID THAT VOTING FOR THE BLOC IS VOTING FOR QUÉBEC AND THAT BUGS ME A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE, YES, YOU’RE THE BLOC. BUT THE BLOC HAS A DIVERSITY OF REGIONS AND VOICES SO YOU HAVE NO MONOPOLY OVER QUÉBEC. NOT AT ALL. YOU HAVE NO MONOPOLY.>>(Voice of Translator): I WAS GOING TO SAY THE SAME THING BECAUSE I’M A PROUD QUÉBECER AND I’M A FEDERALIST AND I’M A PROUD CANADIAN. AND WHAT WE SAW IN 2015 WAS THAT QUEBECERS CHOSE TO BE PART OF A GOVERNMENT AND THAT’S WHAT BROUGHT AN END TO 10 YEARS OF MR. HARPER.>>Rosemary: OKAY, SO I OBVIOUSLY PICKED THOSE CLIPS BECAUSE THEY SPEAK TO I THINK A FULL FRONTAL ATTACK, AS MUCH AS THEY COULD, ANYWAY, ON THE BLOC LEADER. CHANTAL, WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THAT OR THE DEBATE OVERALL?>>I UNDERSTAND THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE HOPE OF THE OTHER LEADERS THAT THIS WOULD BE THE SEGMENT OF THE DEBATE THAT WOULD STAY WITH THE VOTERS BECAUSE THE BLOC HAS BEEN GOING UP AT ALL OF THEIR EXPENSES. I SUSPECT THAT IT WILL NOT BE BECAUSE THE DEBATE OVER WHAT THE BLOC IS ABOUT AND WHETHER IT’S RELEVANT OR NOT AFTER 25 YEARS IS NOT REALLY ON ANYONE’S RADAR, NOR IS THE FEAR THAT THE BLOC WILL SUDDENLY RESUSCITATE SOVEREIGNTY FOR MOST FEDERALISTS IN THIS PROVINCE. BUT — AND I DON’T — AT THE END I THINK THAT IT MATTERED MORE FOR ANDREW SCHEER THAT HE MANAGES TO MAKE A DENT IN MR. BLANCHET’S ARMOUR AND I DON’T THINK THAT HE TOTALLY SUCCEEDED. SO I’M NOT CONVINCED THAT THE BLOC WILL COME OUT TONIGHT STRONGER, BUT I DON’T THINK THAT IT WOULD BE BROUGHT DOWN.>>Rosemary: ANDREW, DO YOU THINK THAT THEY MANAGED TO MAYBE STOP THE BLEEDING AT ANY RATE IN QUÉBEC?>>YEAH, THAT’S THE WAY THAT I WOULD PUT IT. THEY DID NOT DO MUCH DAMAGE TO BLANCHET, BUT THEY DID, I THINK — BOTH TRUDEAU AND SCHEER DID WELL ENOUGH TO STOP THE EROSION OF THEIR OWN SUPPORT. BUT WHAT WAS MOST INTERESTING ABOUT THIS DEBATE IS FOR THE VOTERS MAYBE TUNING IN FOR THE FIRST TIME AND HADN’T BEEN PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE ELECTION, THIS IS A DEBATE THAT ACTUALLY HELPED THEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE LEADERS STOOD FOR, WHAT MADE THEM TICK, WHAT WERE THEIR PRIORITIES, WHAT WERE THEIR VALUES. THE FORMAT, THE QUESTIONS AND EVEN THE MODERATION, THE THING WAS JUST REALLY, REALLY WELL DONE. THIS IS WHAT A DEBATE SHOULD LOOK LIKE. AND WE NEED TO LEARN FROM THIS EXAMPLE.>>Rosemary: I WILL TRY NOT TO CRY MYSELF TO SLEEP TONIGHT AS YOU SAY THAT. BUT I AGREE WITH YOU.>>I LIKE THE RULES AND THE FORMAT.>>Rosemary: I KNOW. I THINK THAT IT WAS SUBSTANTIVE AND INTERESTING AND IT WAS A GOOD CONTRAST OF EVERYONE. I’M SURE THAT ALTHIA WOULD AGREE TOO.>>YEAH, IT WAS NICE TO HAVE THE THREE-ON-THREE, RATHER THAN HAVE LIKE THE FREE-FOR-ALL OF ALL SIX TRYING TO FIGHT FOR TIME. AND YOU HAVE A MUCH BETTER SENSE OF PEOPLE’S POLICY DIFFERENCES AND THE NUANCES. WE HAD FEWER SOUND BITES SO IT ALL AROUND, WITH THE FORMAT BEING A LOT BETTER THIS EVENING. I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO KNOW HOW MANY ANGLOPHONES PAID ATTENTION, JUST SUFFERING THROUGH TRANSLATION IS OFTENTIMES NOT VERY EASY THAT. — VERY EASY. THAT BEING SAID, I THOUGHT THAT MAXIME BERNIER DID REALLY WELL, COMPARED TO MONDAY EVENING. OBVIOUSLY, HE IS MORE COMFORTABLE IN THIS LANGUAGE, BUT, YOU KNOW, HE’S OFFSIDE WITH THE OTHER LEADERS ON SO MANY ISSUES AND YET I THOUGHT THAT HE WAS CLEARLY AND CONVINCINGLY AND EVEN SOME OF THE KIND OF MORE OUT THERE PROPOSAL LIKE STUDYING THE IMPACT OF THE SUN ON CLIMATE CHANGE — [laughter] BUT ASIDE FROM THAT ONE MAYBE, HE — HE DID VERY GOOD COMPARE AND CONTRAST. IF ANYTHING, MAYBE HE SUCCEEDED IN SECURING HIS OWN SEAT.>>Rosemary: HE DID DO A GOOD COMPARE AND CONTRAST BUT I DIDN’T HEAR ANYTHING OUT OF HIS MOUTH THAT I THOUGHT WOULD BE ATTRACTIVE TO QUÉBECERS. MAYBE I’M CRAZY. GO AHEAD, ANDREW.>>THAT’S A FAIR STATEMENT. WHAT DID YOU SEE WAS WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN IF HE HAD NOT MARGINALIZED THIS PARTY BY PANDERING TO EXTREMISTS ON CLIMATE SCIENCE. WHEN THE ISSUES WERE ON ECONOMIC AND FISCAL CONSERVATIVISM, AND THESE ISSUES, IT WAS REFRESHING TO SEE SOMEBODY UP THERE WHEN ALL OF THE OTHER PARTY LEADERS ARE SAYING LET’S SPEND TENS OF BILLIONS OF MORE, AND ONE SAYING THAT WE CAN’T AFFORD IT. I THINK THAT IT’S TOO LATE FOR HIM, I THINK. I DON’T THINK THAT HE’LL BE ABLE TO MAKE MORE THAN A MARGINAL DENT — IMPACT ON THIS ELECTION. BUT HE’LL HOPEFULLY LEARN FROM THAT EXPERIENCE.>>EVEN A MARGINAL DENT IN THE CASE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE CONSERVATIVES OR HAS BEEN HAPPENING SINCE THE T.V.A. DEBATE IS TOO MUCH OF A DENT, BECAUSE MR. BERNIER IS FISHING IN THE CONSERVATIVE WATERS SO IF YOU DON’T LIKE THE BLOC AND YOU’RE NOT THRILLED WITH ANDREW SCHEER, THEN YOU HAVE YET ONE MORE OPTION TO TURN TO. I THOUGHT THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU WAS MORE PRESENT, SEEMED MORE ALIVE, IN THIS DEBATE THAN HE DID ON MONDAY’S. AND HE WAS MORE — AND HE WAS MORE ENGAGED. BUT I DO THINK THAT THE GOOD REFERENCE FOR VIEWERS WHO ARE NOT FRANCOPHONES THAT THEY CAN MEASURE THE DIFFERENCE THAT IT MAKES WHEN YOU’RE ARGUING IN YOUR FIRST LANGUAGE. BERNIER WAS ALMOST ABSENT ON MONDAY IN LARGE PART BECAUSE HIS ENGLISH ISN’T REALLY GOOD. AND TONIGHT ELIZABETH MAY SUFFERED FROM THAT IN THE REVERSE.>>Rosemary: YEAH, SHE DID. AND JAGMEET SINGH, I KNOW THAT HE GOT A LITTLE — I DON’T KNOW IF IT WAS — I DON’T THINK THAT WE HAVE SEEN A SHIFT IN THE POLLS OR ANYTHING, BUT HE GOT SOME ADDED ATTENTION AFTER MONDAY’S DEBATE. HE HAD A COUPLE OF ZINGERS, I GUESS, THAT HE MANAGED TO LAND. BUT I’M NOT SURE THAT IT WAS MUCH MORE THAN THAT.>>IT WASN’T HIS BEST DEBATE.>>NO, I THINK THAT HE WAS STRONGER ON MONDAY. MAYBE, AGAIN, BECAUSE HE’S DEBATING IN HIS SECOND LANGUAGE. HE MANAGED TO MAKE THE POINT OF THE LIBERALS CAMPAIGNING ON THE LEFT AND THEN GOVERNING ON THE RIGHT, ALTHOUGH I THINK THAT MOST PROGRESSIVES WOULD NOT THINK THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU AND PEOPLE ON THE RIGHT CERTAINLY DO NOT THINK THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU HAS BEEN GOVERNING ON THE RIGHT. I THOUGHT THAT THE LIBERAL LEADER’S RESPONSE TO THE SECULARISM POINT WAS VERY INTERESTING THIS EVENING IN THE SENSE THAT HE COMPARED IT TO THE BATTLE FOR LANGUAGE RIGHTS OUTSIDE OF QUÉBEC, TO ABORTION RIGHTS AND A WOMAN’S RIGHT TO CHOOSE. WHICH HE HAS NOT SAID PREVIOUSLY. AND IT’S VERY INTERESTING TO DISSECT, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE NUANCES ARE DIFFERENT IN FRENCH AND ENGLISH. ANDREW SCHEER DID NOT SAY THAT HE’D APPEAL MEDICALLY ASSISTED DYING. HE JUST SAID THAT HE’D REVIEW IT. HE HAD SAID THE OPPOSITE IN THE T.V.A. DEBATE. AND I WONDER IF THESE ARE CALCULATED DECISIONS OR IF THEY’RE JUST AN OPPORTUNITY OR THE TIME WENT BY AND I DIDN’T KNOW –>>Rosemary: I WOULD SAY THAT ASSISTED SUICIDE QUESTION FROM THE WOMAN WHO WAS SUFFERING AND WANTED SOME ANSWERS WAS DEEPLY MOVING AND VERY HUMAN MOMENT FOR ALL OF THEM WHERE THEY HAD TO ANSWER SOMEONE TO HER FACE. I THOUGHT IT WAS AN INCREDIBLE DEBATE MOMENT. DID THIS ONE CHANGE ANYTHING? I KNOW THAT I ASKED YOU THAT ON MONDAY AND NO ONE SEEMED TO THINK THAT IT DID. DOES THIS ONE HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO CHANGE ANYTHING, ANDREW?>>I DON’T SEE MUCH MOVEMENT COMING OUT OF THIS, BUT WE DON’T KNOW. FOR VOTERS, AGAIN, LOOKING FOR MORE INFORMATION ON WHAT THE CANDIDATES STAND FOR, THOSE VOTERS MAY FIND THIS EXTREMELY HELPFUL AND SOME MAY CHANGE THEIR MIND BUT I CAN’T SEE IT IN ANY PREDICTABLE WAY.>>Rosemary: NO? CHANTAL?>>I AGREE WITH ANDREW. I THOUGHT THAT THE MAIN TRENDS WERE PRETTY MUCH BAKED IN BEFORE THIS DEBATE. AND I DIDN’T THINK THAT ANDREW SCHEER OR JAGMEET SINGH COULD ALTER THE COURSE OF WHERE THEIR PARTIES ARE GOING IN THIS PROVINCE AT LEAST ON OCTOBER 21st. BUT IF THERE WERE VOTERS STILL WAIVERING AND WONDERING IF JUSTIN TRUDEAU THAT THEY VOTED FOR IS STILL SOMEONE THEY WANTED TO VOTE FOR, MAYBE ON THAT BORDER, IT MAY HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE, BUT I DON’T THINK THAT IT UPSET THE DYNAMICS THAT WE HAVE SEEN HERE.>>Rosemary: WHAT DO YOU THINK, ALTHIA?>>I THINK THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU PROBABLY DID WHAT HE NEEDED TO DO IN THIS DEBATE MORE THAN IN OTHERS AND THAT HE MADE QUÉBECERS FEEL COMFORTABLE VOTING LIBERAL. AND GAVE MORE MEAT ON THE BONES, EVEN ON IMMIGRATION AND ROXHAM ROAD. IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF MAXIME BERNIER GETS A BUMP IN QUÉBEC BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE MIGHT FEEL NOT COMFORTABLE VOTING FOR ANDREW SCHEER OR BLANCHET AND NOW THEY HAVE THIS REFRESHING NEW VOICE THAT WAS PROBABLY NOT ON THEIR AGENDA BEFORE. BUT I DON’T THINK THAT ON THE LEFT THAT THERE IS ANY REASON IN THIS DEBATE FOR VOTES TO MOVE.>>Rosemary: I ONLY HAVE LIKE 90 SECONDS BUT BECAUSE I WON’T SEE YOU — WELL, WHO KNOWS, I CALL YOU ALL THE TIME AND THOSE BAT SIGNALS GO OUT AT ALL TIMES OF THE DAY, BUT ASSUMING THEY — BUT ASSUMING THAT I DON’T SEE YOU UNTIL NEXT THURSDAY, DO WE THANK WE KNOW — THINK THAT WE KNOW THE OUTCOME AT THIS STAGE? I WON’T ASK YOU WHAT THE OUTCOME IS, BUT DO YOU FEEL THAT YOU KNOW HOW THIS WILL END, WITHOUT SAYING WHAT THE ENDING IS, CHANTAL?>>WITHOUT SAYING WHAT THE ENDING IS, IT’S GETTING VERY LATE IN THE GAME FOR MR. SCHEER TO KIND OF WIN OVER B.C., ONTARIO AND QUÉBEC. AND HE NEEDS TO DO BETTER THAN WHAT WE’RE SEEING IF HE HAS TO STILL HAVE A SHOT AT GOVERNMENT.>>Rosemary: ANDREW?>>YES, I THINK THAT TIME IS RUNNING OUT FOR BOTH ANDREW SCHEER AND FOR JUSTIN TRUDEAU. THAT WITH THE INCREASED SUPPORT FOR THE N.D.P., AND THE INCREASED SUPPORT FOR THE BLOC, IT LOOKS HARDER FOR THE LIBERALS TO GET A MAJORITY AND IT’S LOOKING HARDER FOR ANDREW SCHEER TO HAVE ANY HOPE TO JOIN THE — TO FORM THE GOVERNMENT. AND EVEN A MINORITY AT THIS STAGE, BECAUSE THERE ISN’T AN ISSUE FOR HIM TO REALLY GET THE TRACTION IN ONTARIO WHICH IS WHERE HE ONLY HAD THE HOPE OF MOVING.>>Rosemary: ALTHIA, AND YOU DON’T HAVE TO SAY WHAT THE OUTCOME IS, THOUGH THESE TWO HINTED AT IT.>>I DON’T KNOW. BECAUSE YOU LOOK AT THE VOTES IN 2015 IN QUÉBEC, A FOUR-WAY SPLIT — I DON’T KNOW.>>Rosemary: YEAH, I’M WITH YOU. I’M NOT SURE EITHER. BUT THE NEXT WEEK WILL BE INTERESTING. I’LL TRY TO NOT CALL BEFORE NEXT THURSDAY BUT PLEASE STAY BY THE PHONE. BUT THE NEXT WEEK WILL BE INTERESTING. I’LL TRY TO NOT CALL BEFORE NEXT THURSDAY BUT PLEASE STAY BY THE PHONE. THANK YOU ALL, I APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH. THAT IS, OF COURSE, THE LAST “AT ISSUE” BEFORE ELECTION NIGHT, MAYBE, WE’LL SEE, AND ALMOST THE LAST — ONE MORE TO GO. BEFORE WE GO SUBSCRIBE TO “AT ISSUE” THE PODCAST AND LOOK FOR IT ON iTUNES AND ANY MAJOR PODCAST APP AND OUR WEBSITE cbcnews.ca/thenational AND WHILE YOU’RE THERE YOU CAN CHECK OUT THE OTHER PODCAST THAT I DO “PARTY LINES,” I CO-HOST ONE WITH ELAMIN ABDELMAHMOUD. TODAY WE PLAYED RIHANNA. THERE’S A NEW EPISODE OUT THIS MORNING. TAKE A LISTEN.>>Adrienne: NEXT, CBC NEWS INVESTIGATES. DAVID COMMON HAS THE STORY OF A SPECIAL IMMIGRATION PROGRAMME LAUDED FOR SAVING LIVES THAT SOME PEOPLE MAY HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF. WE’RE BACK I>>Adrienne: WELCOME BACK. TO A STORY NOW THAT MAY CONCERN A LOT OF CANADIANS. CBC NEWS HAS LEARNED OF A FEDERAL INVESTIGATION INTO A TEMPORARY IMMIGRATION PROGRAMME DESIGNED TO HELP A VERY SPECIFIC GROUP OF PEOPLE. BUT AS DAVID COMMON EXPLAINS, NOT ALL WHO ARRIVED SEEMED TO FIT THE CRITERIA.>>Reporter: WHEN VO VAN DUNG ARRIVED IN TORONTO, IT WAS CELEBRATED AS A RESCUE, A GROUP OF MARGINALIZED PEOPLE FORGOTTEN IN THE SHADOW OF HISTORY. FOLLOWING THE VIETNAM WAR, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF VIETNAMESE FLED, FEARING PERSECUTION. MANY ENDED UP WITH A NEW LIFE IN CANADA, BUT OTHERS WEREN’T SO LUCKY. LANDING IN THAILAND, STATELESS, UNABLE TO LEGALLY WORK, ALWAYS IN DANGER OF ARREST.>>WELCOME TO CANADA.>>Reporter: UNTIL A FEW YEARS AGO AFTER AN APPEAL BY THE U.S.-BASED ADVOCACY GROUP “VOICE,” CANADA OPENED ITS DOOR ONCE AGAIN TO MORE THAN A HUNDRED PEOPLE. THEN IMMIGRATION MINISTER JASON KENNEY EVEN THERE TO GREET THEM.>>I WELCOME YOU TO THIS BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY.>>THANK YOU.>>THANK YOU.>>Reporter: A SENIOR GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL TELLS CBC THAT THE SPECIAL PROGRAMME WAS FOR THE MOST MARGINALIZED, THOSE WHO WERE BASICALLY INVISIBLE. THE FORMAL MEMO SPECIFIED VIETNAMESE APPLICANTS MUST HAVE LEFT VIETNAM BETWEEN 1984 AND 1991 AND BE RESIDING IN THAILAND. BUT OUR INVESTIGATION SUGGESTS AT LEAST FIVE PEOPLE WERE NOT THOSE WHO THE GOVERNMENT SEEMED TO WANT TO HELP. ACCORDING TO A SENIOR OFFICIAL CONNECTED TO THE PLAN. TAKE ONCE AGAIN THE CASE OF VO VAN DUNG. FOR SOMEONE WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN FEARFUL OF GOING BACK TO VIETNAM IT SEEMS ODD THAT HE WAS THERE RUNNING A TOUR BUSINESS, AND NOT LIVING ON THE MARGINS. CBC WAS UNABLE TO REACH HIM DESPITE SEVERAL ATTEMPTS. ANOTHER ARRIVAL, SABHI KING RAN A JEWELLERY AND CRAFT BUSINESS. AND ACCORDING TO HIS BUSINESS ASSOCIATE HE LIVED IN CAMBODIA, THOUGH KING ADENIED THAT AND CLAIMING WHEN HE ARRIVED THAT HIS LIFE IN THAILAND HAD BEEN VERY CHALLENGING.>>IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT AND NOT ENOUGH FOOD AND NOT ENOUGH EDUCATION.>>Reporter: WE SHOWED ALL OF THIS TO THOSE INVOLVED DURING THE NEGOTIATIONS ON WHO THE POLICY SHOULD HELP. WHEN HE LOOKS AT WHO ULTIMATELY CAME IN, SOME OF THOSE WE SHOWED HIM WERE NOT WHO HE EXPECTED.>>NONE OF THOSE CASES WOULD BE ELIGIBLE UNDER THIS TEMPORARY SPECIAL PROGRAMME.>>Reporter: MANY OF THESE PEOPLE CLAIM THAT THEY ARE STRANDED IN THAILAND AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON CANADA’S RADAR BUT THEY ALLEGE THAT THE ADVOCACY GROUP VOICE PUT MORE PRIVILEGED VIETNAMESE ON THE LIST.>>HELLO, HELLO, EVERYONE. HELLO.>>Reporter: VOICE FOUNDER TRINH HOI REJECTS DOING ANYTHING WRONG.>>I DID NOT PERSONALLY GO INTO EACH AND EVERYONE’S LIFE TO CHECK. FOR ME OUR JOB WAS, A, TO HELP AND BE AN ADVOCATE FOR THE REFUGEE. JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE GOT RESETTLED HERE DOESN’T MEAN THAT THE PERSON CANNOT GO BACK TO VIETNAM AND VISIT HIS HOMELAND.>>Reporter: BUT A KEY OFFICIAL INVOLVED WITH THE PROGRAMME REFUTES THAT, SAYING THEY COULD NOT GO BACK FOR FEAR OF PERSECUTION. IF THEY COULD I DON’T THINK THAT WE WOULD HAVE AGREED TO THIS POLICY, HE SAID. AND YET THE GOVERNMENT’S OWN MEMO DIDN’T SPELL THAT OUT, FAILING TO SPECIFY APPLICANTS SHOULD NEVER HAVE LEFT THAILAND.>>I WAS PERPLEXED BY THE LACK OF CONTROL. THE INTERNAL CONTROL BY THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT. OVER THIS SPECIAL PROGRAMME.>>Reporter: IF THERE WAS A MISTAKE BACK THEN, THE GOVERNMENT NOW IS INVESTIGATING. WE SPOKE TO THE IMMIGRATION MINISTER BEFORE THE ELECTION WAS CALLED. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOUR GOVERNMENT IS DOING TO ENSURE THAT THAT SPECIAL PROGRAMME WAS NOT ABUSED.>>I THINK THAT IT’S IMPORTANT FOR US TO CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM. WE TAKE ANY ALLEGATION OF FRAUD OR ANYTHING THAT THREATENS THE INTEGRITY OF OUR REFUGEE SYSTEM OR EVEN THE ALLEGING AGAINST THE SYSTEM VERY, VERY SERIOUSLY.>>Adrienne: THAT WAS CBC’S DAVID COMMON REPORTING. NOW THERE’S ONE MORE THING THAT WE NEED TO MENTION, THE FEDERAL OFFICIALS WOULD NOT TELL CBC NEWS WHETHER ANY SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS ARE UNDER INVESTIGATION BUT THE CASE RAISED QUESTIONS ABOUT CANADA’S SCREENING PROCEDURES. MORE NEWS JUST AHEAD ON “THE NATIONAL.” IAN IS BACK IN TWO MINUTES WITH A LOOK AT THE STORIES DEVELOPING AROUND THE WORLD TONIGHT. BUT FIRST… (*)>>”IN CASE YOU MISSED IT” FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 40 YEARS, FEMALE SOCCER FANS IN IRAN WERE ALLOWED INSIDE OF COUNTRY’S MAIN STADIUM TO WATCH A FIFA SOCCER MATCH. WOMEN WERE LARGELY BANNED FOLLOWING THE 1979 ISLAMIC REVOLUTION. THEY FOUGHT FOR CHANGE FOR YEARS, PROTESTING, AND DRESSING AS MEN TO WATCH AND BEING DETAINED. AFTER A PROTESTER DIED LAST MONTH, FIFA INTERVENED.>>WE NEED IRANIAN WOMEN AS WELL TO BE ABLE TO ATTEND THE MEN’S GAME. WE NEED TO PUSH FOR THAT.>>Adrienne: TODAY VICTORY OF SORTS. A FEW THOUSAND WOMEN WERE ALLOWED TO BUY TICKETS FOR THE WORLD CUP QUALIFIER AGAINST CAMBODIA BUT THEY WERE SEGREGATED. NOW THE WORRY — THAT IT WAS A ONE-TIME EVENT. “I HOPE THAT IT WILL BE REPEATED,” ONE FAN SAID, “BECAUSE WOMEN NEED TO COME TO THE STADIUM FOR HAPPINESS AND TO SUPPORT TH>>Ian: WELCOME BACK TO “THE NATIONAL” NEWSROOM IN VANCOUVER. TWO ASSOCIATES OF DONALD TRUMP’S LAWYER, RUDY GUILIANI, HAVE BEEN ARRESTED ON CAMPAIGN FINANCE VIOLATIONS.>>President Donald Trump: I DON’T KNOW THOSE GENTLEMEN. NOW IT’S POSSIBLE THAT I HAVE A PICTURE WITH THEM BECAUSE I HAVE A PICTURE WITH EVERYBODY.>>Ian: THE PAIR WAS ARRESTED LAST NIGHT TRYING TO BOARD AN INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT WITH ONE-WAY TICKETS. THEY NOW FACE FOUR CRIMINAL COUNTS IN CONNECTION WITH A $325,000 DONATION TO TRUMP’S RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN. THEY’VE BEEN SUBPOENAED TO TESTIFY BEFORE SEVERAL HOUSE COMMITTEES INVOLVED IN THE IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY.>>>THE PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE WAS ON THE OFFENSIVE TODAY, DENYING ANY SUGGESTION OF BLACKMAIL DURING HIS JULY PHONE CALL THAT SPARKED THE U.S. IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY.>>THE STATE GAVE ME NOTHING.>>Ian: IN A MARATHON SET OF INTERVIEWS THE UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT SAID THAT HE ONLY LEARNED THAT THE U.S. MILITARY AID WAS BLOCKED AFTER THE CALL. A U.S. WHISTLEBLOWER ALLEGES THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP ASKED UKRAINE TO LOOK INTO THE SON OF HIS POLITICAL RIVAL, THE FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN.>>>AN ADDITIONAL 250,000 CUSTOMERS ARE WITHOUT POWER TONIGHT, BRINGING THE TOTAL TO MORE THAN HALF A MILLION AS MAJOR OUTAGES BLANKET CALIFORNIA FOR A SECOND STRAIGHT DAY. THE DELIBERATE OUTAGE IS A DRASTIC ATTEMPT BY THE STATE’S BIGGEST ENERGY COMPANY TO AVOID THE KILLER WILDFIRES OF RECENT YEARS. THE OUTAGES MAINLY AFFECT NORTHERN CALIFORNIA, INCLUDING PORTIONS OF THE SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA. BUT THERE ARE SOME IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AS WELL. NUMEROUS COLLEGES AND SCHOOLS WERE CLOSED BECAUSE OF THE SHUTDOWN.>>>NEXT ON “THE NATIONAL,” THAT THREE-DIGIT NUMBER WITH BIG IMPLICATIONS. IT’S EASIER THAN EVER TO CHECK YOUR CREDIT SCORE ONLINE, BUT CAN YOU TRUST THE NUMBER THAT YOU GET? WE INVESTIGATE IN TWO MINUTES. (*)>>Adrienne: CAR LOANS AND MORTGAGES, YOU NAME IT, CANADIANS NEED CREDIT AND THE COMPANIES ARE LINING UP TO GIVE YOU YOUR CREDIT SCORE, BUT CAN YOU TRUST WHAT YOU’RE GETTING. “MARKETPLACE” PUT FOUR OF THEM TO THE TEST AND ASHA TOMLINSON HAS RESULTS.>>Reporter: BUSINESS OWNER RAMAN AGARWAL IS TAKING A RISK TO LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT CREDIT SCORES.>>SO YOUR CREDIT SCORE IS BAD AND YOU MAY BE DECLINED FOR A MORTGAGE, YOU MAY BE DECLINED FOR ANY FINANCES THAT YOU WANT TO DO.>>Reporter: THAT THREE-DIGIT NUMBER CAN DETERMINE IF YOU GET FINANCING AND WHAT RATE.>>HOW ARE YOU DOING?>>Reporter: SO “MARKETPLACE” ASKED AGARWAL AND TWO OTHER CANADIANS TO GET THEIR SCORES FROM FOUR DIFFERENT WEBSITES. CREDIT KARMA, TRANSUNION, EQUIFAX AND BORROWELL. THE SCORES THEY GET ONLINE –>>637. WOW. WHAT DID I DO?>>Reporter: ARE NOT THE SAME.>>EVERYBODY REPORTS DIFFERENT SCORES AND IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE.>>IT’S AN INTERESTING EXERCISE.>>Reporter: SO WHICH SCORES WOULD THE LENDERS USE. AGARWAL BRINGS HIS NUMBERS TO A MORTGAGE BROKER.>>I WOULDN’T RELY ON THESE. THIS IS A CLIENT SCORE. AS A MORTGAGE PROFESSIONAL I USE THE BEACON SCORE.>>Reporter: THE BEACON SCORE IS USED BY MOST LENDERS IN CANADA BUT KEPT SECRET FROM CONSUMERS UNLESS YOU ASK FOR IT. AND IF YOU DO IT COULD LOWER YOUR SCORE.>>WHY DON’T WE COME ON IN.>>Reporter: AGARWAL WANTED TO TAKE THE RISK.>>YOUR BEACON SCORE IS A LOT DIFFERENT THAN ANY OF THOSE FOUR REPORTS THAT YOU SHOWED ME TODAY.>>IS IT HIGHER OR LOWER?>>IT’S EXTREMELY HIGHER. YOUR CREDIT SCORE IS 829.>>OH, MY GOD.>>Reporter: THAT’S ALMOST 200 POINTS HIGHER THAN HIS LOWEST NUMBER. GIVEN OUT BY THE CANADIAN COMPANY BORROWELL AND WE ASKED THE C.E.O. WHY.>>SO THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF CREDIT SCORE IN CANADA AND DIFFERENT — THEY’RE CALCULATED SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. AND IT’S A COMPLICATED SYSTEM AND WE’RE THE FIRST TO SAY THAT IT’S FRUSTRATING FOR CONSUMERS. WE DIDN’T BUILD THE SYSTEM AND WE’RE TRYING TO HELP TO ADD TRANSPARENCY TO IT AND TO HELP CONSUMERS TO NAVIGATE IT.>>Reporter: THAT’S NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR AGRAWAL.>>WHATEVER YOUR SCORE IS, THERE SHOULD BE ONE SCORE.>>Reporter: ALL FOUR COMPANIES SAY THAT THE SCORES THEY GIVE CONSUMERS ARE USED BY LENDERS. BUT CHECK OUT THE FINE PRINT. IT SAYS “THESE SCORES MAY NOT ACTUALLY BE USED BY YOUR LENDER. AND THEY’RE FOR EDUCATIONAL USE.” ASHA TOMLINSON, CBC NEWS, TORONTO.>>Adrienne: AND YOU CAN SEE MORE OF ASHA’S INVESTIGATION ON “MARKETPLACE” TOMORROW NIGHT AT 8:00,8:30 IN NEWFOUNDLAND ON CBC TELEVISION.>>>NEXT ON “THE NATIONAL,” PEOPLE IN OTTAWA COULD NOT BELIEVE IT — A THIRD DAY OF TRANSIT NIGHTMARE ON THE CITY’S NEW L.R.T. SYSTEM. WE WILL TAKE YOU THERE IN OUR “MOMENT.”>>Adrienne: SO IT’S NOT CLEAR WHETHER THIS WEEK’S SHOWDOWN IN GATINEAU WILL CHANGE THE POLITICAL MOOD OF CANADIANS, BUT ONE THING IS FOR SURE — ACROSS THE RIVER IN OTTAWA A SHOWDOWN WITH THEIR OWN TRANSIT SYSTEM HAS PEOPLE SEEING RED. FOR THE THIRD DAY IN A ROW, L.R.T. RIDERS HAD MAJOR DELAYS DURING THE COMMUTER CRUSH AND THEIR REACTION TO THIS TRIFECTA OF FRUSTRATION IS OUR “MOMENT.”>>I CAN’T BELIEVE HOW BAD THIS IS, NO WARNING. I CAN’T GET THROUGH THERE.>>Adrienne: NOT A FUN TIME, ESPECIALLY THREE MORNINGS IN A ROW. TODAY’S PROBLEM WAS A COMPUTER GLITCH, MALFUNCTIONING TRAIN DOORS WERE THE PROBLEM ON TUESDAY AND WEDNESDAY. ALL BACKING UP THE TRAINS FOR ABOUT HALF AN HOUR EACH DAY, WHICH CAN FEEL LIKE AN ETERNITY DURING THE MORNING RUSH.>>THEY’VE GOT A SEA OF PEOPLE THERE AND IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT PEOPLE DON’T ALWAYS USE THEIR BEST MANNERS.>>Adrienne: TO BE FAIR, THE DELAYS HAVE ALL BEEN ON O.C. TRANSPO’S NEW CONFEDERATION LINE WHICH JUST OPENED. WHILE THE RIDERS TRY TO BE PHILOSOPHICAL, THAT IS NOT EASY.>>IT’S COMICAL AT THIS POINT. IT’S DAY THREE, ALL YOU CAN DO IS LAUGH. [laughter]>>THIS IS KIND OF BULLCRAP.>>Adrienne: A ROUGH WEEK FOR SURE AND HERE’S HOPING THAT IT GETS BETTER.>>Ian: YOU KNOW, ADRIENNE, I LOOK AT BIG INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS AND I’M IN AWE OF ENGINEERS AND MAYBE NOT SO MUCH THIS TIME. YOU KNOW, I GUESS THAT THE PASSENGERS MAY HAVE BEEN HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THE OPEN DOORS BUT THIS TIME IT WAS A STRAIGHT OUT COMPUTER PROBLEM AND THAT DOES NOT BODE WELL.>>Adrienne: I FEAR THAT ROSIE IS STUCK ON A TRAIN AS WE SPEAK. IF THERE’S COMFORT FOR PEOPLE, APPARENTLY THERE’S ENGINEERS READY TO DO WORK OVERNIGHT AND TOW TRUCKS AT THE READY FOR THE BUSES IN THE MORNING.>>Ian: LOOK, IT’S NOT LOST ON US THAT WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE WE CAN SPEND 15, 30 SECONDS TALKING ABOUT A TRAIN THAT HAS DELAYS. LUCKY US. BUT IT’S GOT TO BE FRUSTRATING FOR COMMUTERS. THAT’S FOR SURE. THAT IS “THE NATIONAL” FOR OCTOBER 10th. GOODNIGHT.>>Adrienne: GOODNIGHT.

Stephen Childs

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